MewsicLovr

Good discussion here.

darin - a standard preflop raise for me from the button will be 3x, and a standard raise from the BB when the SB has limped is 4x. If the SB raised and I decide to 3bet it's usually 3x their raise. I may adjust this depending on the villain; for instance if I know villain calls too much I'll raise a little more with my best hands.

However, your particular strategy will probably be different since you are usually so short. This advice is mainly for the regular HU SNG's. I'm sure that you understand the power of position still though, and the power of raising first. In your situation you may try minraising if your opponent is playing too tight or try about 2.5x. That is actually one of the points I'm still struggling at - when I knock my opponent down to around the 20-30bb mark I sometimes have problems closing the match. However, sometimes they make it easy for me because they sort of "give up" and begin shoving every hand.

JAMOOL

Min bet's not exactly a great play or anything, but in a HU SNG you can get a lot of info from it. I want to know if my opponent is one who will fold to a small bet because he doesn't have anything or will call a small bet on principle. So I always want to toss out a few just to see what kind of person I'm playing against.

My HU strategy used to simply be 'raise or fold' the button, so I was raising it 90% of the time, then CBetting that about 70-80% of the time. It works against some people and indeed I'll do it some of the time, but most people I play HU tend to hammer anyone who sticks to that kind of strategy by throwing in big reraises half the time. I personally love playing against those who raise the button ~100% of the time.

JAMOOL

One more thing, even if you're the best HU player in the world, how can you be a favorite with a 3:1 defecit? Even really bad HU players can win with that kind of advantage....

bigloser2448

Nah, I disagree Jamool. I mean I don't think ML meant he could beat anybody with that kind of deficit, just the average player. Because the average player sucks and has no idea how to play HU. The average player is way too tight, or to loose OOP. This makes them extremely easy to beat. I suck and in SnG's at my level, I consider even myself a huge favorite if I'm anywhere close to even money against the average player.

If you saw the NBC HU Championship, you'll know what I mean. Oral Hershiser had a huge chip lead against Andy Bloch. Andy Went all-in like 6 or 8 times in a row with the button and Oral folded until they were even & Bloch finished him off wuick when he got the lead. Pure Aggression in the right spots.

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JAMOOL

I agree that in a SNG players are generally bad HU (in the HU tournaments they're somewhat better, but not much), but given that the blinds are usually pretty high by the end of a SNG, if you're in a 3:1 chip deficit, you're going to be left with what, 5, 6 big blinds? How can you consider yourself a favorite? To be a favorite you'd need to somehow get your money in twice as an over 70% favorite.

Even in a HU tournament vs. the average player, I don't think it's possible to have a huge edge like this. Some players play ridiculously tight or loose and can usually be beat (even vs. a guy whose only move is allin preflop, you can't be much more than a 70-75% favorite) with a decent percentage, but the truth is that your 'average' player is going to have a huge range in lots of spots and is going to be difficult to play with enough accuracy to have a huge advantage. I'd put money down against anyone who thinks they could beat HU tournaments with a 75% success ratio or whatever. In fact if the player is in any way aggressive it should be nearly impossible.

MewsicLovr

If you want to pick apart my words ok. I thought that was the least important part of the article. I'm more interested in thoughts on the rest of it.

Ugignadl

Favourite != 70% FYI.

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Mirage

Nice article ML!

The only thing I would add is that if you find yourself up against a tougher opponent, in addition to 3-betting your very best hands, you want to 3-bet some trashier stuff. You want to widen your range but not wind up playing moderate strength hands OOP. Now logically, against someone who folds to 3-bets a lot, you'd want to expand your range by adding in the next strongest hands, like KTo/QJo and stuff. However, the folly in that is you will be dominated so often when called and forced to lose a bunch or stack off when you flop top pair and get outkicked. Instead, it is better to polarize your 3-bet range against tough or weak-tight opponents. Start with premiums and near-premiums like you described (99+, AJ+, ATs, sometimes KQ, KJs, if he's passive enough postflop) and if you find your 3bets are almost never called, add in hands that aren't going to get you in trouble but might still flop good like 65s, J8s, 87o, completely trash hands if he's nitty enough, or even smallish PP's since you can hit a set or fold to aggression if you miss it. Suited aces can also work so long as you play for pot control if you pair the ace, but I advise against that unless you are super confident in your postflop game. When he adjusts, especially if you get to showdown with a hand that you 3-bet bluffed, you can calm down and hope to get a premium for the next time or two you reraise.

That said, most often at the micros your opponent will be too braindead to care and will call 3-bets too often, so there is no reason to polarize your range against typical fish. Also, as effective stacks get shallower it becomes unprofitable to 3-bet something that you will fold to a shove, so you only want to worry about polarizing your range against a decent opponent and only when stacks are ~20bbs+. Once it becomes a push-bot game, polarizing won't be a good idea at all. However, in a NBI (no blind increase) tourney, or in an SNG that gets to HU in Level 3 against a tougher or weak-tight opponent, polarizing your range will allow you to pick up lots of dead money, force your opponent to open up his calling range and thereby give you action on your big hands, and tighten up his opening range if he fears a 3-bet (more dead money, yay!)

Also want to add, NBI tournies on Stars are an unbelievable fish pond. I think a 70%+ winrate is attainable at the $11 level. At the $20+ level you will begin to run into more formidable foes now and then, but they are still very profitable. If you are looking to improve your HU game for a foray into HU NLHE cash games, the NBI and the deep NBI SNG's are a fantastic way to hone your skills without risking too much scratch. However, if you want to improve your HU game to boost SNG roi's, regular or turbo HU SNG's are obviously the better choice.

bigloser2448

I don't generally have a problem outplaying the typical (call too loose, but generally rarely raises) HU opponent, but have more of a hard time when I come up against a guy who has a similar strategy of raising with most hands from the button. What if it goes something like this...

I have the button with A9o, I raise, he re-raises. What do you do?

If you call and miss, you can bet he's gonna bet. What do you do?
If you call and hit the Ace, how good is your hand?

If you 3bet and he calls, you miss and he pulls a stop and go, what do you do?

What do you do if he shows relentless aggression from the begginning?

I've generally gone with a strategy where I try not take huge pot risks without being a huge favorite in the hand, but sometimes you can't wait if someone's raising all the time.

I guess in these cases, unfortunately, it comes down to the best cards wins, and I guess over a long haul, the amount of times your up against opponents like this vs. the times you're not, you should be a ahead?

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JAMOOL

Not exactly picking it apart, it's just kind of a claim that sets the tone for the rest of the article. It sort of implies "this article will teach you how to be a favorite even if you're down 3-1".

Oh, and I did like the article. I didn't really have much to add except that I'm really not a fan of 'raise or fold' the button every time. After 4-5 button raises in a row your opponent will play back and check-raise bluff a lot. I also think that you should 3-bet the button more than just on occasion. If your opponent is button raising 75% of his hands then you could probably 3-bet your top 25% or so profitably. When OOP I usually raise 20-25% more than I would on the button, but honestly I don't have a huge problem playing OOP in a HU match. I realize it's tough to do but playing weakly OOP sometimes gives away a lot of value. There are some players who will bet every flop they raise and are generally unlikely to flop anything. Being OOP you can check-raise and pick up extra chips.

Reread my post. I'm assuming favorite = 51%. I said that in order to be favorite with a 3-1 defecit (as in, over 50%) you would need two allins where you were over a 70% favorite in those hands.

If someone thinks they're a favorite (51%) in a match where they are down 3-1 it's not unreasonable to assume that they would have a 75% edge with even chips?


I don't know how much variance is involved, but I think this is attainable only if you're playing against super-weak players. If someone raises way too much you can probably get your money in as a 2-1 favorite easily, which is almost 70%, and if they're too tight you might be able to beat them with a higher percentage than that. Trouble is I'd only classify 1 out of every 3-5 people I play HU as being that easy to beat, and I got my practice in at the $2 ones at Stars.


As for your questions BL - I think the answers depend on how your opponent is playing and how much he's raising you. If he's min-raising you from OOP you have to call every time. If he almost never is 3-betting (and it's pretty hard to know what kind of range he's got sometimes, as HU matches don't last long - if his first 3-bet is on your 15th button raise, you don't really know if his range is big or if he's getting a lot of trashy hands) and he raises large, I would be inclined to fold. If he 3-bets again soon after I'd get suspicious. What you do when he CBs depends a lot on how much. I'd have problems folding if I paired an ace in a 3-bet pot, but if my opponent is playing the hand very strongly I'd have second thoughts. You might want to raise the flop and fold if he shoves, since he'll rarely shove with something that can't beat a pair of aces (or at least tie - if you see he's 3-betting A6, then obviously you should call).

As for 'relentless agression from the beginning', what do you mean? If it's just one hand, you need a strong hand to call him down. If a player is playing fairly normal, then raises a hand preflop, bets pot on the flop and then pot on the turn, he's probably got something pretty big, like an overpair. Usually when people make PSB's or overbets they have something and just really want a call. Of course, if you mean the beginning of the match, all you have to do is trap the guy. If he's shoving all in 75% of the hands (and I've played a number of these matches), I honestly don't know what kind of hands you should be calling with.