Terminal

This is very early maybe 7 hands in.

Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: 3,290
UTG: 2,990
UTG+1: 2,970
UTG+2: 2,970
MP1: 5,260
Hero (MP2): 2,970
CO: 3,215
BTN: 3,210
SB: 6,330

Pre-Flop: (30) J J dealt to Hero (MP2)
4 folds, Hero raises to 80, CO folds, BTN calls 80, SB folds, BB raises to 280, Hero ???

Ugignadl

call

bigloser2448

just inside the 5 & 10 rule. Call for set value. And hit that bitch!

Terminal

I actually raised. to $700. BB had been a bit aggressive and I thought he might be making a move.

Well the BTN called and the BB went all-in, so now what? Also what do you think of the raise?

Ugignadl

raise -- retarded

now you have to call

MewsicLovr

Edit: Read my later comment

__________________
(2:13:49 PM) Mirage: I had already decided to get it in while he was timing down though so his FE was nonexistant
(2:14:05 PM) Mirage: I mean wtf does he think I have there when I take that line pre and on the flop
(2:14:11 PM) Eric: {random}
(2:14:14 PM) Mirage: lol

Mirage

Ditto the others. Although I suck at mid-level MTT's apparently so that doesn't mean much.

Terminal

Call - retarded. (This is for Ugi only, to the others I say I disagree with calling) I still have over 2000 chips and the blinds are only 10/20. I am up against at least AA if not KK. No way I am putting all my chips in for this.



Here is the rest of the HH.

Hero folds, BTN calls 2,470 and is All-In

Flop: (7,170) 8 2 3 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: (7,170) 3 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: (7,170) 6 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 7,170 Pot
BB showed A A (two pair, Aces and Threes) and WON 7,170 (+3,960 NET)
BTN showed Q Q (two pair, Queens and Threes) and LOST (-3,210 NET)

bigloser2448

Not for nothing, this is why we call the 1st preflop raise instead of raise. It's obvious that at least one of these guys feel that they have a good hand. If we call pf and see this flop maybe you can even get more than one chance to make a set with a board like this. I dunno.

sfustsh

lol @ folding once villains put in the next raise.

JJ suck in this position.

As for calling BB's raise, it's not generally my move, but it's also not generally my move to 4 bet JJ early in a tourney. So, raise no good, fold no good, call is my option.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.943% 32.96% 03.98% 2065536396 249731676.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 36.943% 32.96% 03.98% 2065536396 249731676.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 2: 26.113% 25.98% 00.13% 1628146152 8404992.00 { JJ }

So you have to call the final raise, unless you put them both on QQ+:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.066% 39.04% 03.02% 751385988 58182828.00 { QQ+ }
Hand 1: 42.066% 39.04% 03.02% 751385988 58182828.00 { QQ+ }
Hand 2: 15.869% 15.73% 00.14% 302752080 2648904.00 { JJ }

But I don't really think that's reasonable.

FWIW, we need about 23% equity to call, and we barely have that in situation 1. But the point is you really would rather not be in this position in the first place, which makes an interesting point: 4betting has put you in a very neutral EV situation, at the cost of sacrificing a +EV situation (call/fold if BTN shoves). Of course, we have to balance this against the advantage of 4 betting, but when the BB 3 bets you, I would generally assume to be drawing or flipping, since he'll not do this with TT often enough to make 4 betting correct. So there are 3 decisions in this hand:

Decision 1: bet preflop, no brainer
Decision 2: BB 3 bets you and BTN, raise / call / fold.
Decision 3: Call all-in: Odds say you must call

So the only decision is the second one, not the third one. Therefore it's not worth discussing the third decision because the second one is where the mistake was. Why was it a mistake? Because now you have to call your chips off while behind.