$2 Satellite JJ after a open raise???

bigloser2448 · 01-24-2008, 07:34 PM

Poker Stars, $2 + $0.20 NL Hold'em Tournament, 50/100 Blinds, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: 1,785
SB: 1,630
BB: 1,620
UTG: 895
UTG+1: 2,610
MP1: 5,485
Hero (MP2): 2,570
CO: 3,352

Pre-Flop: (150) :Js :Jh dealt to Hero (MP2)
2 folds, MP1 raises to 300, [color=red]Hero ???

I'm a little out of my element here. Is this a shove, call, or what. I can't fold obv.

22 positions advance. Avg. Stack $3k, 60 people left

puckhead23 · 01-24-2008, 08:03 PM

I would call and play for set value given the low blinds in relation to your stack.

hiho · 01-24-2008, 09:06 PM

I think calling here is OK. Pushing seems to risky and folding is entirely too weak given the circumstances.

Call > push > fold.

Any reads on MP1?

sfustsh · 01-24-2008, 09:36 PM

I wouldn't take this hand past the flop unless I flopped a set, regardless.

Call is fine, but folding isn't as weak as in normal circumstances. Shove is ridiculous but a reraise isn't bad either.

Call > reraise = fold > shove

bigloser2448 · 01-24-2008, 09:49 PM

No reads, but there's been a lot of succesful steals lately on the table in general. I saw this early raise as another steel, so I raised to $700 hoping to take it down or go HU against MP1 IP. oops. I got two callers MP1 and ... well let me show you...

If you could I'd like you to expand on the thought process in your decisions here. Of course re-raising with more people to follow is always risky, but is it more so in this type of tournament?

Hero raises to 700, 3 folds, BB calls 600, MP1 calls 400

Flop: (2,150) :5c :6d :Ah (3 Players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: (2,150) :Kd (3 Players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

River: (2,150) :6c (3 Players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

Results: 2,150 Pot
BB showed :Qd :As (two pair, Aces and Sixes) and WON 2,150 (+1,450 NET)
MP1 mucked :8d :Jd and LOST (-700 NET)
Hero mucked :Js :Jh and LOST (-700 NET)

hiho · 01-24-2008, 09:55 PM

IMO a reraise of 700 is not enough to make MP1 fold.

JJ isn't as strong of a hand here as you might think. The blinds are still low relative to your stack and there is a good chance that you could be all in on a coin flip as you were. You'll have better spots later to shove.

sfustsh · 01-24-2008, 11:04 PM

reraise isn't that attractive because accumulating chips doesn't help as much in a satellite as in a regular tournament.

In a sat, you only need to get x position to win, and you only need t1 to get there. In a regular tournament, chip accumulation is critical for final table success. Here, it's unnecessary to seek a big pot with any (ANY) hand. You can bust out out of the money by inflating the pot, making it much less +EV (possibly -EV) to do so. In a regular tournament, inflating the pot gives you at least a better chance to get the final table monies. Here, 22nd is as good as 1st. See Eruu's post where he open folded AA in his sat.

bigloser2448 · 01-25-2008, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfustsh

you only need t1 to get there.

I understand all except for "t1". Probably something that I'll say "Duh, dumbass" when you tell me what it means. :oops:

sfustsh · 01-25-2008, 09:58 AM

1 tournament chip. As opposed to 1$, t1 is one unit in a tournament.

bigloser2448 · 01-25-2008, 02:23 PM

Like I said... duh! Thanks :oops:

01-24-2008, 07:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
bigloser2448 Whale Hunter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 2,851	$2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? Poker Stars, $2 + $0.20 NL Hold'em Tournament, 50/100 Blinds, 8 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter BTN: 1,785 SB: 1,630 BB: 1,620 UTG: 895 UTG+1: 2,610 MP1: 5,485 Hero (MP2): 2,570 CO: 3,352 Pre-Flop: (150) :Js :Jh dealt to Hero (MP2) 2 folds, MP1 raises to 300, [color=red]Hero ??? I'm a little out of my element here. Is this a shove, call, or what. I can't fold obv. 22 positions advance. Avg. Stack $3k, 60 people left __________________ Check out Bigloser's Blog: The Genesis of a Micro-Grinder... http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/bigloser (updated 5/25/08 )

01-24-2008, 08:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
puckhead23 Grinder Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 941	Re: $2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? I would call and play for set value given the low blinds in relation to your stack. __________________ "Seriously, even if you're not the most skilled player in the tournament, remember that Jamie Gold actually won a tournament" - Randy

01-24-2008, 09:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
hiho Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,715	Re: $2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? I think calling here is OK. Pushing seems to risky and folding is entirely too weak given the circumstances. Call > push > fold. Any reads on MP1? __________________ "99% of the players are cake suck at poker" Randy 4/15/08

01-24-2008, 09:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
sfustsh Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rocking the micros Posts: 4,546	Re: $2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? I wouldn't take this hand past the flop unless I flopped a set, regardless. Call is fine, but folding isn't as weak as in normal circumstances. Shove is ridiculous but a reraise isn't bad either. Call > reraise = fold > shove __________________ Carrera: fuck you as just above it means big bet. so again fuck off

01-24-2008, 09:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
bigloser2448 Whale Hunter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 2,851	Re: $2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? No reads, but there's been a lot of succesful steals lately on the table in general. I saw this early raise as another steel, so I raised to $700 hoping to take it down or go HU against MP1 IP. oops. I got two callers MP1 and ... well let me show you... If you could I'd like you to expand on the thought process in your decisions here. Of course re-raising with more people to follow is always risky, but is it more so in this type of tournament? Hero raises to 700, 3 folds, BB calls 600, MP1 calls 400 Flop: (2,150) :5c :6d :Ah (3 Players) BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks Turn: (2,150) :Kd (3 Players) BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks River: (2,150) :6c (3 Players) BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks Results: 2,150 Pot BB showed :Qd :As (two pair, Aces and Sixes) and WON 2,150 (+1,450 NET) MP1 mucked :8d :Jd and LOST (-700 NET) Hero mucked :Js :Jh and LOST (-700 NET) __________________ Check out Bigloser's Blog: The Genesis of a Micro-Grinder... http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/bigloser (updated 5/25/08 )

01-24-2008, 09:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
hiho Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,715	Re: $2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? IMO a reraise of 700 is not enough to make MP1 fold. JJ isn't as strong of a hand here as you might think. The blinds are still low relative to your stack and there is a good chance that you could be all in on a coin flip as you were. You'll have better spots later to shove. __________________ "99% of the players are cake suck at poker" Randy 4/15/08

01-24-2008, 11:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
sfustsh Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rocking the micros Posts: 4,546	Re: $2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? reraise isn't that attractive because accumulating chips doesn't help as much in a satellite as in a regular tournament. In a sat, you only need to get x position to win, and you only need t1 to get there. In a regular tournament, chip accumulation is critical for final table success. Here, it's unnecessary to seek a big pot with any (ANY) hand. You can bust out out of the money by inflating the pot, making it much less +EV (possibly -EV) to do so. In a regular tournament, inflating the pot gives you at least a better chance to get the final table monies. Here, 22nd is as good as 1st. See Eruu's post where he open folded AA in his sat. __________________ Carrera: fuck you as just above it means big bet. so again fuck off

01-25-2008, 09:58 AM	#9 (permalink)
sfustsh Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rocking the micros Posts: 4,546	Re: $2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? 1 tournament chip. As opposed to 1$, t1 is one unit in a tournament. __________________ Carrera: fuck you as just above it means big bet. so again fuck off

01-25-2008, 02:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
bigloser2448 Whale Hunter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 2,851	Re: $2 Satellite JJ after a open raise??? Like I said... duh! Thanks :oops: __________________ Check out Bigloser's Blog: The Genesis of a Micro-Grinder... http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/bigloser (updated 5/25/08 )

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