Snickers99

Gonna try to learn a new game for 2008. Probably Razz or Stud. If I go the Stud route, should I start with Hi only or Stud 8? Which is easier to learn? I would think straight hi because there's less to think about. But is S8 easier to win because people don't know what they're doing? Thoughts?

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thebatsman

This is one of the best Stud and h/l sites around. It was mentioned before on our old site Stud

His betting system is extreme but does work

IMHO Stud h/l is easier and more profitable to learn and win.

Position and starting hands are of course still the most important

You can also practice at micro stakes as well

Good luck Snicks

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Biggle10

Stud/8 is way more fun IMO. As ray zee states, stud 8 gives you a chance to win the largest pots of any limit game.

Ugignadl

Bah, go with Razz! You can play close to perfectly with little to no training.

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mervhage

Stud hi vs hi/lo are two TOTALLY different games. Weak players significantly overvalue big pairs and they are suckers. A starting hand like AA2 is infinitely stronger than AAK. Even AA8 is better. Rolled up trips should be played fast in hi/lo and slow in stud. However, I would go with hi/lo since you will be learning and the split pot is nice backup.

sfustsh

Stud split is ridiculously difficult to play well.

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Carrera: fuck you

as just above it means big bet.
so again fuck off

Carrera

i suppose you get quartered less often than in o8, but do keep that in mind.

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Biggle10

Yeah, but scoops hurt a whole ton.

Snickers99

FYI, played some Razz last night. Played some play money to get the hang of it and then jumped into the lowest FT game...25/.50 Limit. First hand, end up with the nuts. Boy, this game's easy! But we were heads up and I didn't make a lot of money. Of course, my good luck changed. Sat with $10, left an hour later with $5.25. Two pretty good players at the table and I tried to follow their thinking. I liked it! Nice switch from NL.

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Check out My Blog, updated 8/24/08

JAMOOL

I agree, stud hi/lo probably has the most potential for making money. I would say there is a lot of dead money in that game since players generally seem to be terrible at predicting which half of the pot players are going for - plenty of times you will see someone calling along in a 4-way pot with two small pair because they think the rest of the table is drawing low. Hand values in hi/lo do change dramatically from stud hi. KKx in stud hi is a premium hand but in hi/lo it's really not worth playing in most situations, since you're generally drawing to kings up, and with so many people drawing that more often than not isn't good. So I'd say it's more of a game of "how many good outs do I have"? For example, 4 to a low with a gutshot or a flush draw is usually a nice hand. What you really want is to have one end of the hand locked up (usually the low, since you'll know if your opponent can beat you or not) with *some* kind of draw to a good high. That's where a lot of my profit comes from.

Stud hi is simpler but still a good place to make money. It's a game where good note taking is really key. Some people raise on 3rd with the high card showing every time, some raise the bring in every time because they have position, some people bet every time they have the high hand showing and are first to act. If you know who these players are the game becomes a lot easier.

Razz I'd say is the worst - it's fun in the context of HORSE, but in my mind it's definitely the easiest to play, meaning most people's razz game is generally pretty good. Unlike stud and especially stud hi/lo, everyone's trying to make the same thing in Razz. There's no such thing as flushes, straight draws, or anything like that - everyone wants a bunch of lows and that's it. So it's easy to see when you're ahead or behind. Thus there's not too much skill in it. Bluffing opportunities are low - the only bluff (and this is common) is when you both brick, but your opponent doesn't know you did (say you pair a hole card). Plus, it's limit, and 90% of the time there's a bet on a particular street, so opponents will call you because of pot odds alone. The only real 'skill' trick I found out is that if a player catches a low and has best low showing but hesitates before betting then he's probably got a pair. Whenever I play HORSE tournaments I hate when it ends in Razz - HU Razz is awful and comes down 95% to luck. A couple of other frustrating things - one, since there's no 3- or 4-card hands in this game (as opposed to stud, where trips or two pair are usually good), it can be really frustrating and tilt-inducing to start with A235 and brick - secondly, since there's only one type of hand to make, there are no 'creative' hands so if you are getting cold decked and not catching any starting hands you have no choice really but to fold and put in the bring in. That said, it's such an easy game to be good at that you could probably be +EV after about an hour's worth of experience.