Halp!!

CrazeeAsh · 07-06-2008, 04:49 AM

Is this hand weird or is it just me?

PokerStars Game #18618348736: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/07/06 - 06:35:25 (ET)
Table 'Persephone' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: ibetufold33 ($75.30 in chips)
Seat 2: !Walhalla024 ($13.69 in chips)
Seat 3: catheterchri ($6 in chips)
Seat 4: crazeeash ($6.74 in chips)
Seat 5: noahdog73 ($4.75 in chips)
Seat 6: ar6timchap ($5.91 in chips)
noahdog73: posts small blind $0.02
ar6timchap: posts big blind $0.05
catheterchri: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to crazeeash [

]
ibetufold33: raises $0.15 to $0.20
!Walhalla024: calls $0.20
catheterchri: calls $0.15
crazeeash: raises $0.87 to $1.07
noahdog73: folds
ar6timchap: folds
ibetufold33: raises $2.61 to $3.68
!Walhalla024: folds
catheterchri: folds
crazeeash: raises $3.06 to $6.74 and is all-in
ibetufold33: calls $3.06
*** FLOP *** [

]
*** TURN *** [

] [

]
*** RIVER *** [

] [

]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ibetufold33: shows [

] (a straight, Five to Nine)
crazeeash: mucks hand
ibetufold33 collected $13.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $13.95 | Rake $0.65
Board [

]
Seat 1: ibetufold33 showed [

] and won ($13.30) with a straight, Five to Nine
Seat 2: !Walhalla024 folded before Flop
Seat 3: catheterchri folded before Flop
Seat 4: crazeeash (button) mucked [

]
Seat 5: noahdog73 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: ar6timchap (big blind) folded before Flop

Ugignadl · 07-06-2008, 05:06 AM

Weird in which way?

johnny · 07-06-2008, 12:16 PM

It's not as weird as you might think, but it's still not too bright of villain. Let's assume he's a thinking player. Let's also assume that he believes you're only raising like that with AAxx.

Now, you got your money in ahead, which is good. However you're only about 53% to 47% to win this hand. One of your problems is that only one of your aces is suited and for the other you hold one of your own outs. Still, you're ahead preflop. Just for discussion, say your

was the

Now you're a 58% to 42% favorite.

Now if he's in a gambling mood he can call you with a hand like that and hope to flop 2 pair, a straight draw, or a wrap knowing that your aces are unlikely to improve. He might even be able to push you off the aces on later streets if he doesn't hit. But he doesn't try to outflop you, he tries to out flip you and gets it all in preflop when you're ahead. So, yes he's a muppet and I believe you played your hand well.

His hand can have a lot going for it but it's gapped, and not only is it gapped but the gap is at the high end. While this might not matter much against your aces he's raising this UTG and most likely folding out all but the hands he's behind while he's OOP. If he wants to gamble and put in a little raise like Sammy he should definitely just call a reraise and see what the flop brings. Had he done that you may have been able to get away from your hand, and he wouldn't get his whole stack in while an underdog. After the flop you became the dog and he had a 70% to 30% edge over you.

IMO, calling someones raise when you think they have AA when you have a hand with wrap potential and your stacks are big enough to play post flop poker is not bad, but reraising you there is just bad poker and he got a little bit lucky.

For your part, if you think they are paying attention, raising with hands like his in position is a good way to disguise your AA a little better when you get it although I'd rather see that gap at the bottom end.

CrazeeAsh · 07-07-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugignadl

Weird in which way?

THIS.

Quote:

ibetufold33: raises $0.15 to $0.20
!Walhalla024: calls $0.20
catheterchri: calls $0.15
crazeeash: reraises $0.87 to $1.07
noahdog73: folds
ar6timchap: folds
ibetufold33: rereraises $2.61 to $3.68 with

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny

His hand can have a lot going for it but it's gapped, and not only is it gapped but the gap is at the high end. While this might not matter much against your aces he's raising this UTG and most likely folding out all but the hands he's behind while he's OOP. If he wants to gamble and put in a little raise like Sammy he should definitely just call a reraise and see what the flop brings.

IMO, calling someones raise when you think they have AA when you have a hand with wrap potential and your stacks are big enough to play post flop poker is not bad, but reraising you there is just bad poker and he got a little bit lucky.

Thanks for the reply Johnny

Exactly my thoughts, just needed reassurance heh

Ugignadl · 07-07-2008, 01:17 AM

I think that's more standard than weird

.

CrazeeAsh · 07-07-2008, 02:08 AM

Never actually seen anyone 4bet with such holdings before.

I was interested in my equity so I had a play on ProPokerTools. Nice to know I was (just) ahead heh.

Omaha Hi Simulation
1,086,008 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
AdAs5d8d 53.45% 579,249 2,481
Jc9h8h7c 46.55% 504,278 2,481

mervhage · 07-07-2008, 07:38 AM

It took me 10 minutes to try and figure out why you didn't get the lo side of the pot with 8A lo, then I realized it's hi only,

.

This is not too ridiculous compared to things you'll see in the future if you play a lot of Omaha. But you get your money in when you're ahead and that's all you can do!

bigloser2448 · 07-07-2008, 09:28 AM

I've said it 100 times... I'll never understand this game.

johnny · 07-07-2008, 02:52 PM

Here is some tilt-inducing weird.

Full Tilt Poker Game #7125588995: Table General Miles - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 16:49:52 ET - 2008/07/07
Seat 1: BigHevC ($48.30)
Seat 2: farah66 ($123.40)
Seat 3: Kegs357 ($57.40)
Seat 4: realrood ($19.50)
Seat 5: Ceppo ($62.50)
Seat 6: odafish9 ($107.70)
Seat 7: Inga ($100)
Seat 8: STUUNGER49 ($65.25)
Seat 9: HebeyJuan ($158.95)
odafish9 posts the small blind of $0.50
Inga posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Kegs357 [

]
STUUNGER49 has 15 seconds left to act
STUUNGER49 calls $1
Inga has been disconnected
HebeyJuan calls $1
Inga has reconnected
BigHevC folds
farah66 calls $1
Kegs357 raises to $6.50
realrood folds
Ceppo folds
odafish9 folds
Inga folds
STUUNGER49 has 15 seconds left to act
STUUNGER49 calls $5.50
HebeyJuan folds
farah66 calls $5.50
*** FLOP *** [

]
STUUNGER49 has 15 seconds left to act
Inga has been disconnected
STUUNGER49 bets $22
farah66 raises to $44
Kegs357 raises to $50.90, and is all in
STUUNGER49 has 15 seconds left to act
STUUNGER49 raises to $58.75, and is all in
farah66 calls $14.75
STUUNGER49 shows [Ts 3s 7s Js]
farah66 shows [Kd 4s Qd 9s]
Kegs357 shows [Qh 6d Ac As]
*** TURN *** [Jd Th Kh] [

]
*** RIVER *** [Jd Th Kh 7d] [

]
Inga has reconnected
STUUNGER49 shows a full house, Tens full of Jacks
farah66 shows a flush, King high
STUUNGER49 wins the side pot ($15.70) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks
Kegs357 shows a straight, Ace high
STUUNGER49 wins the main pot ($171.70) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks
Kegs357 adds $100
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $190.40 Main pot $174.70. Side pot $15.70. | Rake $3
Board: [Jd Th Kh 7d Td]
Seat 1: BigHevC didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: farah66 showed [

] and lost with a flush, King high
Seat 3: Kegs357 showed [

] and lost with a straight, Ace high
Seat 4: realrood didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Ceppo (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: odafish9 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Inga (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: STUUNGER49 showed [

] and won ($187.40) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks
Seat 9: HebeyJuan folded before the Flop

I'd say I'd get it back but, as normally happens after I get stacked, villain immediately left the table.

Mirage · 07-07-2008, 03:14 PM

but he had 2 pair, he put you on aces, and he was right

07-06-2008, 04:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
CrazeeAsh School Fish Join Date: May 2008 Location: Neverland Posts: 116	Halp!! Is this hand weird or is it just me? PokerStars Game #18618348736: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/07/06 - 06:35:25 (ET) Table 'Persephone' 6-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: ibetufold33 ($75.30 in chips) Seat 2: !Walhalla024 ($13.69 in chips) Seat 3: catheterchri ($6 in chips) Seat 4: crazeeash ($6.74 in chips) Seat 5: noahdog73 ($4.75 in chips) Seat 6: ar6timchap ($5.91 in chips) noahdog73: posts small blind $0.02 ar6timchap: posts big blind $0.05 catheterchri: posts big blind $0.05 * HOLE CARDS * Dealt to crazeeash [ ] ibetufold33: raises $0.15 to $0.20 !Walhalla024: calls $0.20 catheterchri: calls $0.15 crazeeash: raises $0.87 to $1.07 noahdog73: folds ar6timchap: folds ibetufold33: raises $2.61 to $3.68 !Walhalla024: folds catheterchri: folds crazeeash: raises $3.06 to $6.74 and is all-in ibetufold33: calls $3.06 * FLOP * [ ] * TURN * [ ] [] * RIVER * [ ] [] * SHOW DOWN * ibetufold33: shows [ ] (a straight, Five to Nine) crazeeash: mucks hand ibetufold33 collected $13.30 from pot * SUMMARY * Total pot $13.95 \| Rake $0.65 Board [ ] Seat 1: ibetufold33 showed [ ] and won ($13.30) with a straight, Five to Nine Seat 2: !Walhalla024 folded before Flop Seat 3: catheterchri folded before Flop Seat 4: crazeeash (button) mucked [ ] Seat 5: noahdog73 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: ar6timchap (big blind) folded before Flop

07-06-2008, 05:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ugignadl Drunken Aussie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Aussieland Posts: 7,708	Weird in which way? __________________ I have been blogging. Last updated April 29th. http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/ugignadl/

07-06-2008, 12:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	It's not as weird as you might think, but it's still not too bright of villain. Let's assume he's a thinking player. Let's also assume that he believes you're only raising like that with AAxx. Now, you got your money in ahead, which is good. However you're only about 53% to 47% to win this hand. One of your problems is that only one of your aces is suited and for the other you hold one of your own outs. Still, you're ahead preflop. Just for discussion, say your was the Now you're a 58% to 42% favorite. Now if he's in a gambling mood he can call you with a hand like that and hope to flop 2 pair, a straight draw, or a wrap knowing that your aces are unlikely to improve. He might even be able to push you off the aces on later streets if he doesn't hit. But he doesn't try to outflop you, he tries to out flip you and gets it all in preflop when you're ahead. So, yes he's a muppet and I believe you played your hand well. His hand can have a lot going for it but it's gapped, and not only is it gapped but the gap is at the high end. While this might not matter much against your aces he's raising this UTG and most likely folding out all but the hands he's behind while he's OOP. If he wants to gamble and put in a little raise like Sammy he should definitely just call a reraise and see what the flop brings. Had he done that you may have been able to get away from your hand, and he wouldn't get his whole stack in while an underdog. After the flop you became the dog and he had a 70% to 30% edge over you. IMO, calling someones raise when you think they have AA when you have a hand with wrap potential and your stacks are big enough to play post flop poker is not bad, but reraising you there is just bad poker and he got a little bit lucky. For your part, if you think they are paying attention, raising with hands like his in position is a good way to disguise your AA a little better when you get it although I'd rather see that gap at the bottom end. __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES Last edited by johnny; 07-06-2008 at 12:26 PM.

07-07-2008, 01:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ugignadl Drunken Aussie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Aussieland Posts: 7,708	I think that's more standard than weird . __________________ I have been blogging. Last updated April 29th. http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/ugignadl/

07-07-2008, 09:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
bigloser2448 Whale Hunter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 2,861	I've said it 100 times... I'll never understand this game. __________________ Check out Bigloser's Blog: The Genesis of a Micro-Grinder... http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/bigloser (updated 5/25/08 )

07-07-2008, 02:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
CrazeeAsh School Fish Join Date: May 2008 Location: Neverland Posts: 116	Never actually seen anyone 4bet with such holdings before. I was interested in my equity so I had a play on ProPokerTools. Nice to know I was (just) ahead heh. Omaha Hi Simulation 1,086,008 trials (Exhaustive) Hand Pot equity Wins Ties AdAs5d8d 53.45% 579,249 2,481 Jc9h8h7c 46.55% 504,278 2,481

07-07-2008, 07:38 AM	#7 (permalink)
mervhage Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 7,407	It took me 10 minutes to try and figure out why you didn't get the lo side of the pot with 8A lo, then I realized it's hi only, . This is not too ridiculous compared to things you'll see in the future if you play a lot of Omaha. But you get your money in when you're ahead and that's all you can do!

07-07-2008, 02:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Here is some tilt-inducing weird. Full Tilt Poker Game #7125588995: Table General Miles - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 16:49:52 ET - 2008/07/07 Seat 1: BigHevC ($48.30) Seat 2: farah66 ($123.40) Seat 3: Kegs357 ($57.40) Seat 4: realrood ($19.50) Seat 5: Ceppo ($62.50) Seat 6: odafish9 ($107.70) Seat 7: Inga ($100) Seat 8: STUUNGER49 ($65.25) Seat 9: HebeyJuan ($158.95) odafish9 posts the small blind of $0.50 Inga posts the big blind of $1 The button is in seat #5 * HOLE CARDS * Dealt to Kegs357 [ ] STUUNGER49 has 15 seconds left to act STUUNGER49 calls $1 Inga has been disconnected HebeyJuan calls $1 Inga has reconnected BigHevC folds farah66 calls $1 Kegs357 raises to $6.50 realrood folds Ceppo folds odafish9 folds Inga folds STUUNGER49 has 15 seconds left to act STUUNGER49 calls $5.50 HebeyJuan folds farah66 calls $5.50 * FLOP * [ ] STUUNGER49 has 15 seconds left to act Inga has been disconnected STUUNGER49 bets $22 farah66 raises to $44 Kegs357 raises to $50.90, and is all in STUUNGER49 has 15 seconds left to act STUUNGER49 raises to $58.75, and is all in farah66 calls $14.75 STUUNGER49 shows [Ts 3s 7s Js] farah66 shows [Kd 4s Qd 9s] Kegs357 shows [Qh 6d Ac As] * TURN * [Jd Th Kh] [] * RIVER * [Jd Th Kh 7d] [] Inga has reconnected STUUNGER49 shows a full house, Tens full of Jacks farah66 shows a flush, King high STUUNGER49 wins the side pot ($15.70) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks Kegs357 shows a straight, Ace high STUUNGER49 wins the main pot ($171.70) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks Kegs357 adds $100 * SUMMARY * Total pot $190.40 Main pot $174.70. Side pot $15.70. \| Rake $3 Board: [Jd Th Kh 7d Td] Seat 1: BigHevC didn't bet (folded) Seat 2: farah66 showed [ ] and lost with a flush, King high Seat 3: Kegs357 showed [ ] and lost with a straight, Ace high Seat 4: realrood didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: Ceppo (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 6: odafish9 (small blind) folded before the Flop Seat 7: Inga (big blind) folded before the Flop Seat 8: STUUNGER49 showed [ ] and won ($187.40) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks Seat 9: HebeyJuan folded before the Flop I'd say I'd get it back but, as normally happens after I get stacked, villain immediately left the table. __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES Last edited by johnny; 07-07-2008 at 02:55 PM.

07-07-2008, 03:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mirage Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Raising donk bets Posts: 3,265	but he had 2 pair, he put you on aces, and he was right

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