playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here?

johnny · 01-05-2008, 08:43 PM

Read on villain: he's a shortstack douchebag

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com Hand History Converter

SB: $205.40
Hero (BB): $232
UTG: $237.55
CO: $60.80
BTN: $71

Pre-Flop: :5c: :5h: dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, BTN raises to $18, SB folds

Ugignadl · 01-05-2008, 10:10 PM

It depends on how wide his range is. Fold or push, it's probably breakeven.

johnny · 01-05-2008, 10:25 PM

His range is any pocket pair, any suited ace, any suited connector, any suited one gap connectors, any connectors. His range does not include AA or KK because he would limp call or minraise. He's playing like a douchebag.

A higher pair myself and I probably push. Here I folded. Generally against these guys where if you're in a hand you're in it for $50 I make the wrong decisions.

sfustsh · 01-06-2008, 02:58 AM

Sooooo that's an easy shove, isn't it?

In a vacuum I'd fold since we don't get set odds and he as 70 BB.

Ugignadl · 01-06-2008, 03:20 AM

If I really put his range on that, I'd push.

johnny · 01-06-2008, 11:22 AM

That's the thing, I felt I made the wrong move. It was a full ring table, it's gone down to 5. Generally when a full ring table does that it's about to break up. I played on it for quite a while and only built up the $32 profit, I really didn't feel like gambling it on the probable last hand on thetable in what is probably a coin flip with the douchebag looking to double up and leave or bust and leave, then be left with no table anyway, so I folded and just closed the table. Then I felt like a pussy.

But, like I say, these fuckers eat my brain. When I learn to play them it's going to make so much difference in my roll.

LadyWrestler · 01-06-2008, 04:20 PM

I would have been gone after the hand before this one. When my full tables get down to 6, I leave because short-handed tables are not nearly as profitable for me as full tables. In that situation, with 55, I would have folded. I do not like $69 coin flips, even if the flips slightly favor me, because they produce too much variance...for me. As for him being a donktard, I would figure that I had my shots at him already, made some money, and I am keeping it! I know. I know. I am weak-tight, but I like small, steady profits every month...they keep the electric on, among other things. :D

NeXtToNoTHiNG · 01-06-2008, 06:59 PM

Is villain going to call all in with any hands you want to see if you shove? Call me a nit but I think 34s is just going to give up as are most suited connectors, and maybe the only hands he will call all in with are pairs, only 3 of which you beat, and combos of the biggest 4 cards, which you don't ever have in trouble. Maybe throw the suited Aces in as well. Pretty easy muck for me with less than 66/77 until he gets truly random.

Just don't think you need to play their game to beat them, especially if they're likely to leave after doubling through you.

johnny · 01-06-2008, 07:36 PM

They definitely challenge you to think about ranges and how likely it is you can get in without being dominated. 20BBs doesn't seem like much but when you're faced with this decision a couple dozen times a night it can really make or break your session.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com Hand History Converter

CO: $351.70
Hero (BTN): $194
SB: $29.70
BB: $45.05
UTG: $155.25
UTG+1: $200.70
MP1: $177.35
MP2: $221.90

Pre-Flop: :Jd: :Ad: dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG raises to $4, 2 folds, MP2 calls $4, CO folds, Hero calls $4, SB folds, BB raises to $45.05 and is All-In, 2 folds, Hero calls $41.05

Flop: ($99.10) :5c: :7d: :6d: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: ($99.10) :Td: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($99.10) :8h: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $99.10 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed :Jd: :Ad: (a flush, Ace high) and WON $96.10 (+$51.05 NET)
BB showed :Kd: :Qc: (King Queen high) and LOST (-$45.05 NET)

johnny · 01-06-2008, 08:04 PM

Can't really explain this one.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players
LeggoPoker.com Hand History Converter

MP: $230.75
Hero (CO): $367.30
BTN: $79.55
SB: $219.50
BB: $13
UTG: $78.05
UTG+1: $125.25

Pre-Flop: :3h :5c dealt to Hero (CO)
5 folds, SB calls $1, BB raises to $13 and is All-In, SB calls $11

Flop: ($26) :Qs :Td :9h (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: ($26) :5d (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($26) :6c (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $26 Pot ($1.30 Rake)
SB showed :3c :7c (Queen Ten high) and LOST (-$13 NET)
BB showed :9c :Kh (a pair of Nines) and WON $24.70 (+$11.70 NET)

Seriously, range? The guy keeps rebuying at $40 and playing the same. On the previous hand the villain who lost had push me off JJ on a Axx flop with 2 spades by potting it first to act on his first hand at the table. It's about a round later now and he's lost half his stack (not topping up). Ooopsie, wonder if he had me beat.

01-05-2008, 08:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? Read on villain: he's a shortstack douchebag Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players LeggoPoker.com Hand History Converter SB: $205.40 Hero (BB): $232 UTG: $237.55 CO: $60.80 BTN: $71 Pre-Flop: :5c: :5h: dealt to Hero (BB) 2 folds, BTN raises to $18, SB folds __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

01-05-2008, 10:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ugignadl Drunken Aussie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Aussieland Posts: 7,707	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? It depends on how wide his range is. Fold or push, it's probably breakeven. __________________ I have been blogging. Last updated April 29th. http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/ugignadl/

01-05-2008, 10:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? His range is any pocket pair, any suited ace, any suited connector, any suited one gap connectors, any connectors. His range does not include AA or KK because he would limp call or minraise. He's playing like a douchebag. A higher pair myself and I probably push. Here I folded. Generally against these guys where if you're in a hand you're in it for $50 I make the wrong decisions. __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

01-06-2008, 02:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
sfustsh Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rocking the micros Posts: 4,557	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? Sooooo that's an easy shove, isn't it? In a vacuum I'd fold since we don't get set odds and he as 70 BB. __________________ Carrera: fuck you as just above it means big bet. so again fuck off

01-06-2008, 03:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ugignadl Drunken Aussie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Aussieland Posts: 7,707	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? If I really put his range on that, I'd push. __________________ I have been blogging. Last updated April 29th. http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/ugignadl/

01-06-2008, 11:22 AM	#6 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? That's the thing, I felt I made the wrong move. It was a full ring table, it's gone down to 5. Generally when a full ring table does that it's about to break up. I played on it for quite a while and only built up the $32 profit, I really didn't feel like gambling it on the probable last hand on thetable in what is probably a coin flip with the douchebag looking to double up and leave or bust and leave, then be left with no table anyway, so I folded and just closed the table. Then I felt like a pussy. But, like I say, these fuckers eat my brain. When I learn to play them it's going to make so much difference in my roll. __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

01-06-2008, 04:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
LadyWrestler Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 4,212	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? I would have been gone after the hand before this one. When my full tables get down to 6, I leave because short-handed tables are not nearly as profitable for me as full tables. In that situation, with 55, I would have folded. I do not like $69 coin flips, even if the flips slightly favor me, because they produce too much variance...for me. As for him being a donktard, I would figure that I had my shots at him already, made some money, and I am keeping it! I know. I know. I am weak-tight, but I like small, steady profits every month...they keep the electric on, among other things. :D

01-06-2008, 06:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
NeXtToNoTHiNG Grinder Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: don't Posts: 597	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? Is villain going to call all in with any hands you want to see if you shove? Call me a nit but I think 34s is just going to give up as are most suited connectors, and maybe the only hands he will call all in with are pairs, only 3 of which you beat, and combos of the biggest 4 cards, which you don't ever have in trouble. Maybe throw the suited Aces in as well. Pretty easy muck for me with less than 66/77 until he gets truly random. Just don't think you need to play their game to beat them, especially if they're likely to leave after doubling through you.

01-06-2008, 07:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? They definitely challenge you to think about ranges and how likely it is you can get in without being dominated. 20BBs doesn't seem like much but when you're faced with this decision a couple dozen times a night it can really make or break your session. Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players LeggoPoker.com Hand History Converter CO: $351.70 Hero (BTN): $194 SB: $29.70 BB: $45.05 UTG: $155.25 UTG+1: $200.70 MP1: $177.35 MP2: $221.90 Pre-Flop: :Jd: :Ad: dealt to Hero (BTN) UTG raises to $4, 2 folds, MP2 calls $4, CO folds, Hero calls $4, SB folds, BB raises to $45.05 and is All-In, 2 folds, Hero calls $41.05 Flop: ($99.10) :5c: :7d: :6d: (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Turn: ($99.10) :Td: (2 Players - 1 is All-In) River: ($99.10) :8h: (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Results: $99.10 Pot ($3 Rake) Hero showed :Jd: :Ad: (a flush, Ace high) and WON $96.10 (+$51.05 NET) BB showed :Kd: :Qc: (King Queen high) and LOST (-$45.05 NET) __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

01-06-2008, 08:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Re: playing shortstack douchbags, what's your play here? Can't really explain this one. Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players LeggoPoker.com Hand History Converter MP: $230.75 Hero (CO): $367.30 BTN: $79.55 SB: $219.50 BB: $13 UTG: $78.05 UTG+1: $125.25 Pre-Flop: :3h :5c dealt to Hero (CO) 5 folds, SB calls $1, BB raises to $13 and is All-In, SB calls $11 Flop: ($26) :Qs :Td :9h (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Turn: ($26) :5d (2 Players - 1 is All-In) River: ($26) :6c (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Results: $26 Pot ($1.30 Rake) SB showed :3c :7c (Queen Ten high) and LOST (-$13 NET) BB showed :9c :Kh (a pair of Nines) and WON $24.70 (+$11.70 NET) Seriously, range? The guy keeps rebuying at $40 and playing the same. On the previous hand the villain who lost had push me off JJ on a Axx flop with 2 spades by potting it first to act on his first hand at the table. It's about a round later now and he's lost half his stack (not topping up). Ooopsie, wonder if he had me beat. __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

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