Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play

johnny · 02-10-2008, 07:23 PM

So, here, do you just figure you're going all in no matter what the flop because of his stack size or do you just give up the flop?

I was hoping that if he doubled up he'd just go away but he didn't.

Villain's VP is 53%, minraises quite a bit, and checkraises 8% of the time.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
[url=http://www.leggopoker.com:2stegc6d]LeggoPoker.com[/url:2stegc6d] - [url=http://www.leggopoker.com/hh:2stegc6d]Hand History Converter[/url:2stegc6d]

BB: $531.35
UTG: $65
UTG+1: $57.10
MP1: $597.30
Hero (MP2): $198
CO: $194
BTN: $201.80
SB: $76.35

Pre-Flop: K:diamond: K:heart: dealt to Hero (MP2)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $4, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $12, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $8

Flop: ($27) 5:heart: 2:heart: A:diamond: (2 Players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $18, UTG+1 raises to $36, Hero raises to $135, UTG+1 calls $9.10 and is All-In

Turn: ($117.20) 9:heart: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($117.20) 2:spade: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $117.20 Pot ($3 Rake)
UTG+1 showed Q:heart: A:club: (two pair, Aces and Twos) and WON $114.20 (+$57.10 NET)
Hero showed K:diamond: K:heart: (two pair, Kings and Twos) and LOST (-$57.10 NET)

johnny · 02-10-2008, 07:36 PM

Fucker lost that money then I stacked him again. I swear when I'm running bad this stuff really pisses me off. You lose 10 or 12 of these in a row and bam you lose $500 in a night to these fuckstains. Makes it hard to show a fucking profit.

Ugignadl · 02-10-2008, 07:37 PM

Treat his min-raise as an all-in, and then you can fold to it. Really, the only flop you give up on is one which is A high and even then you only give up if villain pushes against your 2/3 pot cbet. If the flop has 2 A, an A and a K or any other kind of action it's all-in.

So in this case, an unusual case, I'd have groaned and folded to the min-raise. Despite my intense hatred of them.

thebatsman · 02-10-2008, 07:42 PM

Any Ace scares me .......Short stacks love ANY FUCKING ACE and because of the random generated card placement it means they get one cause you don't... I slow down on flop

sfustsh · 02-10-2008, 07:52 PM

Yah, way to justify villain's optimistic call.

johnny · 02-10-2008, 08:03 PM

So do I just give up before the continuation bet? Cuz I'm pretty much never folding on a $200 table for $27. Or really am I thinking about this completely the wrong way. He lost it againthen just beat my AKs with K7o lol

thebatsman · 02-10-2008, 08:58 PM

If he was a full stack and mini raised your flop bet...... what do you then??

Do you play differently???

johnny · 02-10-2008, 09:07 PM

Well sure, but that's the whole point. He's hardly got anything behind him. If I kept folding they would just run over me. They frequently bet out or reraise with sub par holdings and get folded to, not much risk to them. This guy, for example. kept losing it every time he doubled up. It just so happens that he had a slighly better hand than me each time. But he lost money with some real garbage.

thebatsman · 02-10-2008, 09:44 PM

You know I am not an expert at this... but it seems you may change your judgement when playing short stacks.
Are You playing their stack rather than their cards or board. Are you playing your cards or their stacks first.

You do have a history with short stacks...(unfortunately)... If you treated them as full stacks.. How would your game change????

Quote:

johnny
Post subject: Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play

He's hardly got anything behind him.Are you changing decisions because of this?
If I kept folding they would just run over me. Who would and why? Is this different to a big stack?
They frequently bet out or re raise with sub par holdings and get folded to, not much risk to them.Thats poker... Then it's it's time to trap

This guy, for example. kept losing it every time he doubled up. It just so happens that he had a slightly better hand than me each time. But he lost money with some real garbage.

May be you should try some games as a shortstack.

johnny · 02-10-2008, 09:52 PM

No, I'm completely messing up my head. Going to take a few days off.

02-10-2008, 07:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play So, here, do you just figure you're going all in no matter what the flop because of his stack size or do you just give up the flop? I was hoping that if he doubled up he'd just go away but he didn't. Villain's VP is 53%, minraises quite a bit, and checkraises 8% of the time. Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players [url=http://www.leggopoker.com:2stegc6d]LeggoPoker.com[/url:2stegc6d] - [url=http://www.leggopoker.com/hh:2stegc6d]Hand History Converter[/url:2stegc6d] BB: $531.35 UTG: $65 UTG+1: $57.10 MP1: $597.30 Hero (MP2): $198 CO: $194 BTN: $201.80 SB: $76.35 Pre-Flop: K:diamond: K:heart: dealt to Hero (MP2) UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $4, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $12, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $8 Flop: ($27) 5:heart: 2:heart: A:diamond: (2 Players) UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $18, UTG+1 raises to $36, Hero raises to $135, UTG+1 calls $9.10 and is All-In Turn: ($117.20) 9:heart: (2 Players - 1 is All-In) River: ($117.20) 2:spade: (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Results: $117.20 Pot ($3 Rake) UTG+1 showed Q:heart: A:club: (two pair, Aces and Twos) and WON $114.20 (+$57.10 NET) Hero showed K:diamond: K:heart: (two pair, Kings and Twos) and LOST (-$57.10 NET) __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

02-10-2008, 07:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play Fucker lost that money then I stacked him again. I swear when I'm running bad this stuff really pisses me off. You lose 10 or 12 of these in a row and bam you lose $500 in a night to these fuckstains. Makes it hard to show a fucking profit. __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

02-10-2008, 07:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ugignadl Drunken Aussie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Aussieland Posts: 7,708	Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play Treat his min-raise as an all-in, and then you can fold to it. Really, the only flop you give up on is one which is A high and even then you only give up if villain pushes against your 2/3 pot cbet. If the flop has 2 A, an A and a K or any other kind of action it's all-in. So in this case, an unusual case, I'd have groaned and folded to the min-raise. Despite my intense hatred of them. __________________ I have been blogging. Last updated April 29th. http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/ugignadl/

02-10-2008, 07:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
thebatsman 2007 Forum Challenge Winner Join Date: May 2007 Location: great white north Posts: 1,581	Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play Any Ace scares me .......Short stacks love ANY FUCKING ACE and because of the random generated card placement it means they get one cause you don't... I slow down on flop __________________ "Beer a proud sponsor of casual sex since 1857"

02-10-2008, 07:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
sfustsh Whale Hunter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rocking the micros Posts: 4,557	Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play Yah, way to justify villain's optimistic call. __________________ Carrera: fuck you as just above it means big bet. so again fuck off

02-10-2008, 08:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play So do I just give up before the continuation bet? Cuz I'm pretty much never folding on a $200 table for $27. Or really am I thinking about this completely the wrong way. He lost it againthen just beat my AKs with K7o lol __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

02-10-2008, 08:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
thebatsman 2007 Forum Challenge Winner Join Date: May 2007 Location: great white north Posts: 1,581	Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play If he was a full stack and mini raised your flop bet...... what do you then?? Do you play differently??? __________________ "Beer a proud sponsor of casual sex since 1857"

02-10-2008, 09:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play Well sure, but that's the whole point. He's hardly got anything behind him. If I kept folding they would just run over me. They frequently bet out or reraise with sub par holdings and get folded to, not much risk to them. This guy, for example. kept losing it every time he doubled up. It just so happens that he had a slighly better hand than me each time. But he lost money with some real garbage. __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

02-10-2008, 09:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
johnny Picture Frame Ninja Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,110	Re: Bah, still having doubts about shortstack play No, I'm completely messing up my head. Going to take a few days off. __________________ Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days. 11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy 11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit Mirage: FU PKOER Mirage: F Mirage: U Mirage: FUFUFU Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

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