Hello all,
I'm very new here (just found the site today actually!)

Anyway, I have been playing on Pokerstars Play MOney for a year or more.

After getting frustrated and losing over and over, I bought a couple of books(: Phil Gordon's and Doyle Brunson's.)

Playing mostly like Phil's book got me to the point of finishing in the "money" (albeit fake) in most every tourney I play in.

I just found the Daniel Negreanu No Limit Hold'em Freeroll Super Satellite, and gave it a try last night. I finished 298th out of the 10,000 people that started. I was pretty impressed with myself although I know most of you here would probably win the thing, right?

I won $2 (real) money for the effort, yahoo!!!

Here's the thing. I have NO MONEY of my own to "invest" (bad word, I know), in Poker right now, but I think I have a "thing" for this.

First Question, what should I do to parlay my big winnings into more?

Two options: Play in a $1.20 SNG or ring game .01/.02?

Go ahead and laugh as you guys play for thousands of times this much every day, but not all of us can start with a bankroll of more than this!

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

__________________
Check out Bigloser's Blog: The Genesis of a Micro-Grinder...

http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/bigloser (updated 5/25/08 )

Welcome to our forum!

Nobody here will ever laugh about bankrolls, we've all been there and started with small rolls. It sounds like you enjoy playing Multi-table tournaments. There is a .25 tournament several forum members have been playing and are getting a decent ROI from it. If that isn't your thing, you may try a 1.20 SNG and see how that goes..

__________________

Welcome!

Nah, we wouldn't all win it. [url=http://www.ridgepoker.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1467:1ceojxdg]Only Thebats![/url:1ceojxdg] :)

Congrats on your cash! Sounds like you're off to a great start. I'm not sure where I'd suggest you play with that size a roll, except to play more freerolls. SNG swings can take you up or down many buy-ins and you should study fold/push theory first IMO. With the .02 cash game you still only have one buy in. Maybe some others can give some suggestions, but I'd say to try and hit another freeroll.

I love Phil Gordon's books. They are tournament based but I still use much of the advice for cash.

__________________
Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days.
11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy
11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit

Mirage: FU PKOER
Mirage: F
Mirage: U
Mirage: FUFUFU
Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

You might try taking that $2 and playing the 5NL tables. You'll have a decent chance of running it up. And if you busto...well, it's 2 bucks.

__________________
(2:13:49 PM) Mirage: I had already decided to get it in while he was timing down though so his FE was nonexistant
(2:14:05 PM) Mirage: I mean wtf does he think I have there when I take that line pre and on the flop
(2:14:11 PM) Eric: {random}
(2:14:14 PM) Mirage: lol

Welcome to the forum..

If you enjoy mtts... Poker stars does have a .25Cent tourney everynight at 10.00 est. We play for bragging rights here and yeah I'm bragging.

__________________
"Beer a proud sponsor of casual sex since 1857"

That's probably not a bad bet.

__________________
Blog Updated 6/21, Oooops, I'm goin to Vegas in a few days.
11:09:32 PM Randy: limit poker is easy
11:19:03 PM Randy: ok, i suck at teh limit

Mirage: FU PKOER
Mirage: F
Mirage: U
Mirage: FUFUFU
Mirage: up a $1.45 still YES

Beware of play money. One reason that many people are so passionate about keeping poker legal is that without real money in play the games are very bad. People are much more detached about play money than real money. There's a quantum leap in difficulty even playing for pennies.

Which isn't to say it's difficult or you won't win, just that play money has a bad reputation for giving people unrealistic expectations. If you think about it, that's probably why the sites offer it. Anyone interested enough to play correctly in a play money game is a strong lead on a new customer.

You'd be surprised. See above, vis unrealistic expectations. If you look at "Teh Ridgepoker Challenge" in here you'll see that none of us have even made the final table in a $0.25 tournament against 3,500 awful players in spite of multiple attempts. Tournament poker involves a great deal of luck.

Yahoo!!! See above, great deal of luck. That's a pretty sweet finish in a field that large, I'd celebrate too.

Invest is probably a bad word, but naming yourself "bigloser" may be tough on your self esteem too! I might also avoid parlay outside of pirate jokes because it reeks of gambling, and the worse a poker player gambles the more he'll deny it.

Seriously though, the watch word for you should be caution. You have limited experience and a limited bankroll, which means no real idea how you'll do and a high probability of going broke. Busting is also a huge deal for you, since you have no additional funds to restart with. It is possible to begin from zero, but it's an order of magnitude easier to start with a little seed money, even if it's $1.

It's been suggested that ring games are more suitable for new players, which is probably true. It's a lot easier to learn the game first and how to deal with increasing blinds second. Besides, you don't have a choice.

If you enter a $1.20 SNG you'll probably lose $1.20. It's very unlikely that anyone finishes in the money a majority of the time. Plus, since you can't reload, you'd need to have a 100% chance of finishing in the money. I can assure you nobody finishes in the money every time. (Thankfully so, because if other players could never win, nobody would play!)

On the other hand, $2 would give you 200 big bets at .01/.02. That's enough for a pretty good player to avoid busting at those stakes (though not at higher ones) and should give you a reasonable cushion provided you don't do anything incredibly stupid. You do need to bear in mind that you'll be slightly underfunded, will need to get used to cash games, and will likely need to log significant time at tiny limits to build up a bankroll.

Realistically your primary options around that level are No-Limit or Limit Hold'em. Even if you can find other games offered they're unlikely to be good value. (Better players, higher variance, both are bad for you.) I would lean towards limit, because no-limit offers you a pretty good chance to drop your bankroll in one hand at this point. Even if you pick up AA and are a 4:1 favorite you still have a 20% chance of going home crying.

Limit play removes that concern, and provides an extra benefit of being primarily mechanical at that level. You'll generally need a massive hand to win, so you'll be drawing at hands often. When you're drawing to a winning hand, there's no worry about if your hand is good or not, just if the pot's offering you the correct odds to draw.

Key to your success is being serious about it. You can't go on a flier with your roll, you'll need to keep dilligent records about how long you play and the results. You'll also probably need to spend just as much time looking back over the histories as you do playing the hands at first. If you want to splash around, make sure you confine it to freerolls or the play money tables.

Thanks everyone, I'll check it out.

While I'm here, a quick question about Math?

Of all the books and "other stuff" I've read so far, Math seems huge. Although I was always pretty good at Math, Some of this stuff (ie. I read LinuxRocks Blog) seems a little daunting. If I can't fully understand all the Math right now, should I forget about this. How much is this Math, and how much is Playing Smart and not being a Donkey?

I've found that in MTT tight/aggressive play is usually the way to go. I try to steal blinds with decent hands in late position at least once a "go-round". That mixed with weeding out the real fish made it easy to get into the money last night. I just started playing a little lose once I knew I was in the money and wife was getting pissed at me hogging up the computer all night.

BTW, she plays on poker.com AKA carbonpoker.com any thoughts. I haven't heard anybody talking about that site here.

__________________
Check out Bigloser's Blog: The Genesis of a Micro-Grinder...

http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/bigloser (updated 5/25/08 )

Is that the "The Ridgepoker Challenge" I read a little about?

I couldn't find "it" anywhere. It's the .25 MTT on PokerStars? :nod:

__________________
Check out Bigloser's Blog: The Genesis of a Micro-Grinder...

http://www.feltpoker.com/blogs/bigloser (updated 5/25/08 )

It depends. Well-respected authors are pretty evenly divided between considering the math of paramount importance and of little (or no) importance. However, that's a bit misleading because they all know and understand the math. The "no math" argument generally centers around two points: That people who consider math the most important factor overstate its importance and that given enough time at the tables the math becomes somewhat intuitive. The counter argument is that math is the easiest thing to teach first, so you should start learning a very mathematical approach.

Both are correct. At a casino you could likely get away without math, because limit games are family pot affairs and you generally have correct odds to draw to anything reasonable. Doyle Brunson originally drew with three people or more in the pot, and bluffed with his draws heads-up, which comes very close to giving you great odds. On top of that, in the long run marginal hands run so close in value that selecting from the reasonable plays is enough to keep you out of trouble.

The bad news is that the pro math folks are correct about other things. For example, it's very difficult for people to select a "reasonable" action when they don't know which actions are unreasonable. That's easily solved by having them choose the mathematically correct action. So it is probably easier to learn a very mathematical approach first. Plus, it's generally agreed that games online are both tighter and tougher than live ones. That means they present more difficult decisions more often, making for a bigger disadvantage if you can't pick a profitable action.

If you're looking for the good news, it's that there is some middle ground to be found. In a typical low-limit hold'em game your money comes from straights and flushes anyway, so just remembering those odds will get you on your way provided you don't draw if the board's paired and only draw to a winning straight. Draws to full houses are made simpler because you can't go too wrong never folding two pair or three of a kind.