D-bag "slowplays" unmade hand, sevens is a donk.

[sevens]

What is with people "slowplaying" these days? I've seen more AA limping in late game in multiway pots than I have donks limping with J-9o UTG.

But this is not one of those AA hands. This is a limping MP with AQs hand.

Full Tilt Poker, $2 + $0.25 NL Hold'em Sit n' Go, 80/160 Blinds, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): 3,340
BB: 1,100
UTG: 3,470
MP: 1,530
CO: 2,840
BTN: 1,220

Pre-Flop: (240) :8d: :8c: dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, MP calls 160, CO calls 160, BTN folds, Hero raises to 3,340 and is All-In, 2 folds, CO calls 2,680 and is All-In

Flop: (6,000) :Qh: :3d: :6d: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: (6,000) :Qs: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: (6,000) :Kd: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 6,000 Pot
Hero showed :8d: :8c: (two pair, Queens and Eights) and LOST (-2,840 NET)
CO showed :Qd: :Ad: (a flush, Ace high) and WON 6,000 (+3,160 NET)

Well there you have it. I am officially a fish.

[MewsicLovr]

This is incredibly standard, although the shove is not (IMO)

[Hultin]

I wouldnt shove either, you have 20x the bb and some other players have stacks that compare to yours. Only when your stack is 3-4x larger than the next stack can u shove with hands like these. A raise is also out of the question because you dont have position. Just see a flop and you are probably going to fold this hand but you might hit a set.

If I have a mid pocket pair out of position I am playing for a set still. If blinds were bigger then I could see you pushing.

If you had this hand on the button and everyone else folded then a raise wouldnt be that bad either. Shoving is bad though.

[sevens]

Originally Posted by Hultin

I wouldnt shove either, you have 20x the bb and some other players have stacks that compare to yours. Only when your stack is 3-4x larger than the next stack can u shove with hands like these. A raise is also out of the question because you dont have position. Just see a flop and you are probably going to fold this hand but you might hit a set.

If I have a mid pocket pair out of position I am playing for a set still. If blinds were bigger then I could see you pushing.

If you had this hand on the button and everyone else folded then a raise wouldnt be that bad either. Shoving is bad though.

My thinking is "since the blinds are worth stealing, they would want to be playing a reasonable hand aggressively. Therefore, since they limped, they probably do not have a hand they want to call most or all of their chips with." Is that bad thinking?

edit: An answer to my own question: "Yes, because people at this level may look me up with overcards, in which case I'm only 50/50 to win, but I'm risking my whole tournament on it."?? Is that about right?

[bigloser2448]

Originally Posted by sevens

My thinking is "since the blinds are worth stealing, they would want to be playing a reasonable hand aggressively. Therefore, since they limped, they probably do not have a hand they want to call most or all of their chips with." Is that bad thinking?

Too many people are way too quick to shove pocket pairs out of position. IMHO, I don't usually try to "steal blinds" in early position, but if I did, I would have to have a hand that added up to blackjack, IOW, Ace-Paint or something, but never a middle pair.

Phil Gordon's Little Green Book (If you haven't read it yet, go get it NOW), covers pockets pairs and in my opinion suggests the best way to handle them. Call any low/middle pocket pair up to 5BBs if you have at least 40BBs, wait to hit the set, and make them pay. (and I'll add a little something to that. Make them pay quickly, don't play too slow after flopping a set or someone might draw out on you).

Even if you were playing very aggressive and bet 4 or 5 BBs out of position with that hand and got called, you'd still be able to fold after the flop and stay to play more hands. If you got raised after a 4 or 5 BB bet, you know you're either up against an overpair, or two over cards at worst. Either way, not worth busting, again IMHO.

[sevens]

Originally Posted by bigloser2448

Too many people are way too quick to shove pocket pairs out of position. IMHO, I don't usually try to "steal blinds" in early position, but if I did, I would have to have a hand that added up to blackjack, IOW, Ace-Paint or something, but never a middle pair.

Phil Gordon's Little Green Book (If you haven't read it yet, go get it NOW), covers pockets pairs and in my opinion suggests the best way to handle them. Call any low/middle pocket pair up to 5BBs if you have at least 40BBs, wait to hit the set, and make them pay. (and I'll add a little something to that. Make them pay quickly, don't play too slow after flopping a set or someone might draw out on you).

Even if you were playing very aggressive and bet 4 or 5 BBs out of position with that hand and got called, you'd still be able to fold after the flop and stay to play more hands. If you got raised after a 4 or 5 BB bet, you know you're either up against an overpair, or two over cards at worst. Either way, not worth busting, again IMHO.

I appreciate the advice. Yes I have read both of Phil's books. I'm just in the process of finding a happy medium of playing LAG late game and playing smart late game. People tighten way up late game, and I guess I should have taken this into consideration. People limp late game with hands they would have readily raised early game due to high blinds.

I do, however, think I've found my happy medium, or at least, close to it. That is, being aggressive in the right spots. That is:

1) Late position and c-betting more often.
2) Only playing if I'm the first to open the pot (unless AA/KK/QQ/AK) - I hate flat calling late game. If I'm playing a hand, it's a raise or reraise preflop. Period. Maybe this is a leak, but I have yet to see a situation where it makes more sense to flat call.
3) Only playing over aggressive against stacks who have less than 50% (ideally, 30% or less) of my total stack
4) Raising enough to put the blinds all in with my big hands if I'm the first in (99+, AQ+), assuming I follow guideline #3

[bigloser2448]

So, why the Push? Or was it a ooopps? It sounds like you would normally fold in the above situation.

[sevens]

Originally Posted by bigloser2448

So, why the Push? Or was it a ooopps? It sounds like you would normally fold in the above situation.

It was pre-my guidelines for aggression.

edit: And in the situation, a PP or A-x or suited connectors in the SB in an unraised pot, I'll just call.